{"id":16647,"date":"2026-01-22T14:04:27","date_gmt":"2026-01-22T14:04:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/?p=16647"},"modified":"2026-01-22T14:04:54","modified_gmt":"2026-01-22T14:04:54","slug":"leah-sottile-ryan-haas-true-crime-podcasting-journalism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/2026\/01\/22\/leah-sottile-ryan-haas-true-crime-podcasting-journalism\/","title":{"rendered":"Leah Sottile and Ryan Haas on deconstructing \u2018true crime\u2019 in podcasting and journalism"},"content":{"rendered":"    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p class=\"has-drop-cap\">On the latest episode of the <a href=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.buzzsprout.com\/2449998\/episodes\">Nieman Storyboard podcast<\/a>, journalists <a href=\"https:\/\/www.leahsottile.com\/\">Leah Sottile<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/substack.com\/@ryanhaas2\">Ryan Haas<\/a> join Storyboard Editor <a href=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/authors\/mark-armstrong\/\">Mark Armstrong<\/a> to discuss the second and final season of their serialized podcast \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/show\/hush\/\">Hush,<\/a>\u201d from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/\">Oregon Public Broadcasting<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Sottile and Haas first began working together on the 2019 OPB\/Longreads podcast <a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/news\/article\/bundyville-occupation-podcast\/\">\u201cBundyville<\/a>,\u201d and they&#8217;ve continued their collaborative work as journalists and podcasters ever since. This week, they&#8217;ve announced that they will be starting an independent publication called The Western Edge. (For updates, you can follow <a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/leahsottile.bsky.social\">Sottile<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/ryanjhaas.bsky.social\">Haas<\/a> on Bluesky or on their <a href=\"https:\/\/substack.com\/@leahsottile\">individual<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/substack.com\/@ryanhaas2\">Substacks<\/a>.)<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-spacer mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<div style=\"height:39px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-html mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<div id=\"buzzsprout-player-18550019\"><\/div><script src=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2449998\/episodes\/18550019-leah-sottile-and-ryan-haas-on-deconstructing-true-crime-in-podcasting-and-journalism.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-18550019&#038;player=small\" type=\"text\/javascript\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>[ Follow us in <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/nieman-storyboard\/id1804505440\">Apple Podcasts<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4cN4SOwf5Am05PoA9wckcA\">Spotify<\/a>, or your <a href=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.buzzsprout.com\/2449998\/episodes\">favorite podcast app<\/a>. ]<\/strong><\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-spacer mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<div style=\"height:39px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Season One of \u201cHush\u201d<em> <\/em>investigated the case of Jesse Lee Johnson, a man who spent 25 years in prison, 17 of them on death row, in Oregon for a murder he did not commit. The second season investigates the case of Sarah Zuber, an 18-year old girl who was found dead just 400 feet from her front door in 2019 in the rural town of Rainier, Oregon.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Sottile and Haas use the second season to discuss the ethical questions around the entire genre of \u201ctrue crime,\u201d dating all the way back to Truman Capote&#8217;s 1966 book \u201cIn Cold Blood.\u201d When does covering a crime cross the line from public interest to sensationalism?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Sottile and Haas discuss how they address these questions in their own work, and how they use the principles trauma-informed reporting to interview family members who have experienced an unthinkable tragedy, and are seeking help from journalists to get answers.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>They also explain their process as a producer-reporter team. \u201c\u200aIf I&#8217;m going to come to [Ryan] with an idea, I really wanna make him excited about it,\u201d Sottile says. \u201cSo I&#8217;m going to provide some audio that&#8217;s like, \u2018Check out what I got, dude.\u2019 I tend to know from working with Ryan for a long time, some of the questions that he&#8217;s going to ask as an editor. That&#8217;s one of the beautiful things about working with somebody long-term is you&#8217;re like, okay, he&#8217;s going to want to know what sort of investigative documents we can look into, what kind of records we can do, what agencies we can hold to account, what&#8217;s the place that we&#8217;re going to be looking at?\u201d&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Sottile is the author of two books: \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.hachettebookgroup.com\/titles\/leah-sottile\/blazing-eye-sees-all\/9781538742600\/\">Blazing Eye Sees All\u201d <\/a>and \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.hachettebookgroup.com\/titles\/leah-sottile\/when-the-moon-turns-to-blood\/9781538721339\/\">When the Moon Turns to Blood.\u201d<\/a> Her journalism has been published by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/people\/leah-sottile\/\">The Washington Post,<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2025\/04\/02\/books\/review\/25-books-review-instability-of-truth-blazing-eye-sees-all-rebecca-lemov-leah-sottile.html\">The New York Times Magazine<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.playboy.com\/magazine\/articles\/2017\/05\/porn-to-the-people\/?srsltid=AfmBOorzHuQ7cawkCLUnnN_Re7ZYxgpY3XtfQXZW_RSbOLcD8Mi8MrcM\">Playboy<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/author\/leah-sottile\/\">Rolling Stone<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.outsideonline.com\/byline\/leah-sottile\/\">Outside<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bbc.com\/audio\/brand\/m000mqp1\">BBC,<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theatlantic.com\/author\/leah-sottile\/\">The Atlantic<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hcn.org\/author\/leah-sottile\/\">High Country News,<\/a> where she is a correspondent. In addition to \u201cHush\u201d and \u201cBundyville,\u201d Sottile also hosted the podcasts <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/burn-wild\/id1642525879\">\u201cBurn Wild\u201d<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/two-minutes-past-nine\/id1532716042\">\u201cTwo Minutes Past Nine.\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Haas is an independent producer who worked with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/\">Oregon Public Broadcasting<\/a> for more than a decade with a focus on government accountability in the Pacific Northwest, particularly in the criminal justice system. He has won numerous awards, including a National Headliner for the first season of \u201cHush.\u201d He has also produced the podcasts <a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/dying-for-a-fight\/\">\u201cDying for a Fight,\u201d<\/a> and the National Magazine Award-nominated \u201cBundyville.\u201d<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>The excerpts below are edited for length and clarity.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">On the \u2018true crime\u2019 genre in podcasting<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>\u200aSOTTILE: Both of us, probably me more than Ryan, bristles at that label of \u201ctrue crime.\u201d Particularly because I think it makes a lot of people ignore the work. I think if people don&#8217;t like true crime, or they think true crime is just about lionizing serial killers or gazing into the abyss, then they&#8217;re just going to disregard it.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>So we had a lot of questions around: We do not feel that we make true crime, but how can we be sure that this show isn&#8217;t seen as true crime? So what you realize pretty quickly in the show is that we directly interrogate what true crime is.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>HAAS: There is a difference between what we as a society understand as true crime and journalism about crime. I think those are two distinct things. And there can be benefits to both, but I do think there is a lot of media out there that is reading Wikipedia pages about serial killers and it&#8217;s like, OK, what is the benefit of both the people creating [it] and the people consuming it. What are we learning from that? I think if you&#8217;re going to get into a crime and something that is tragic and has happened to a person, you should at least think a little bit about: what is the benefit of this? I think Justin St. Germain [an Oregon State University professor who teaches courses on nonfiction and true crime] puts it really well in our show and he says, \u201cwhat&#8217;s the benefit of this beyond your own careers?\u201d<em> <\/em>And I think if you&#8217;re being ethical, you should be asking yourself that question.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">On pre-reporting and determining if a story is worth pursuing<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>HAAS: \u200aI think that&#8217;s always our instinct. \u201cOkay, this seems like a good idea. Let&#8217;s do an interview\u201d or \u201clet&#8217;s get some documents and look at them.\u201d And I feel like even with this second season, after we did our first interview, we were like, \u201cOh yeah, there&#8217;s material here, this is worth pursuing.\u201d I think it&#8217;s always hard because you don&#8217;t want to overinvest in pre-reporting, but it often is that pre-reporting that&#8217;s going to dictate whether something feels like there&#8217;s enough there to pursue.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">On their process for staying organized<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>\u200aSOTTILE: We do two things: We establish a timeline and a character sheet. The timeline can be an early tool that I think is good for anybody wanting to do any kind of narrative book or story or podcast where you&#8217;re just literally going in and saying the order of how things happened, but critically, linking where you found that information, because anything of size, you&#8217;re going to forget where the reporting came from.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>So for us, especially, a year on, you think you&#8217;re going to remember where you found this one thing about some boot prints. [You won&#8217;t] remember later. That&#8217;s a thing that we can kind of both collaborate on as we&#8217;re chipping away at the project.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Then we start identifying who the critical people are to interview. So in the case of Season One, it was obvious we wanted to interview Jesse Johnson. We wanted to interview his legal team. We wanted to interview the police who worked on his case, and who&#8217;s alive, who&#8217;s available, can we find them?<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">On knowing when to finish reporting<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>HAAS: \u200aI think we&#8217;re always open to changing things if something big enough came in. But I think that is the hard thing about this type of podcasting is there is a certain point where you have to cut it off or you&#8217;ll just never get it done, because you could always be gathering more reporting. That&#8217;s a conversation I have with reporters all the time as an editor. You have to know when to stop. You have to know when it&#8217;s time to produce a story. And that&#8217;s a hard thing to do. But if you don&#8217;t do it, the public never hears your story.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">On place as a character<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>SOTTILE: \u200aI think a big thing for us in all the work that we&#8217;ve done together is to really dig into place as character. So in the first season, we talk extensively about Salem, Oregon, as the capital and Marion County and its politics.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>But I think that this was initially exciting for me even before we got into the nitty gritty of what happened to Sarah Zuber \u2014 just understanding Rainier and Columbia County. It&#8217;s just kind of a place you pass through on the way to the coast for a lot of people. So it was sort of exciting to think about understanding the culture there.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">On transparency and sharing your process with a non-journalist audience<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>HAAS: \u200aIt can be hard as a journalist, because sometimes you&#8217;re just like, \u201cDoes anyone actually give a crap about this?\u201d But I hear feedback all the time [from] people [who] are non-journalists, like,<em> <\/em>\u201cWow, it&#8217;s so interesting. It&#8217;s great to hear you guys talk about how you&#8217;re coming to these ideas and how you&#8217;re pursuing your reporting.\u201d<em> <\/em>So it always surprises me how interesting that stuff is to people.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m particularly charming, but I do appreciate that people are interested in that, and it does help. It helps us because I think we can just be transparent with people and I appreciate that. I think it gives us a lot of credibility when we do reach conclusions within our stories.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Advice to other journalists and the importance of journalism right now<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-quote mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>HAAS: \u200aLeah and I are the type of journalists who are like, \u201cHey, we&#8217;re willing to get in the muck and get dirty.\u201d I don&#8217;t need someone to transcribe my tape. I don&#8217;t need someone to do all of that. I think we want to continue to do this type of work, whether that&#8217;s at OPB or elsewhere or on our own. I think now is the time where journalists who are passionate about journalism should stand up, and commit to investing in that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>I read an essay over the weekend that really resonated with me, which was like, Look, so many journalists get criticized because we want financial stability like anybody else. I think any journalist wants financial stability and the people who run a lot of media organizations are not interested in investing in that. And so we need to figure out a way to just do that on our own. The importance of journalism matters now more than ever.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n\n\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>I think we are at a moment where people need to understand the world around them, and I think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s attractive to Leah and me, covering regional journalism and local journalism here in the Northwest. People deserve to understand this place where we live. And as Leah said, we can&#8217;t wait for people from the East Coast who have most of the media control to be interested. We have to do it ourselves.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Reading &amp; Listening List: Authors, Stories, and Podcasts Mentioned&nbsp;<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-list mb-4 list max-w-screen-full mx-auto pl-5 \">\n            \n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Leah Sottile: <a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/leahsottile.bsky.social\">Bluesky<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/substack.com\/@leahsottile\">Substack<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ryan Haas: <a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/ryanjhaas.bsky.social\">Bluesky<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/substack.com\/@ryanhaas2\">Substack<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>\u201c<\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/show\/hush\/\">Hush Season Two: The Case of Sarah Zuber<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/lettersofrec.substack.com\/\">Justin St. Germain<\/a>, Oregon State University professor<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/dying-for-a-fight\/\">Dying for a Fight<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.penguinrandomhouse.com\/the-read-down\/truman-capote-books\/\">\u201cIn Cold Blood,\u201d<\/a>\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.penguinrandomhouse.com\/the-read-down\/truman-capote-books\/\">Truman Capote<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/\">Oregon Public Broadcasting<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/article\/2024\/10\/01\/hush-state-oregon-jesse-lee-johnson\/\">Hush Season One: The State of Oregon v Jesse Lee Johnson<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.opb.org\/news\/article\/bundyville-occupation-podcast\/\">Bundyville<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/rFuKtJjhBCQ?si=ck_XYBJNbu95v3qy\">Twin Peaks<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/668413071555907\/\">Justice for Sarah Zuber Facebook Page<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.hachettebookgroup.com\/titles\/leah-sottile\/when-the-moon-turns-to-blood\/9781538721339\/\">When the Moon Turns to Blood<\/a>\u201d (Leah Sottile)<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.hachettebookgroup.com\/titles\/leah-sottile\/blazing-eye-sees-all\/9781538742600\/\">Blazing Eye Sees All<\/a>\u201d (Leah Sottile)<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/leahsottile.substack.com\/p\/66-clarity\">\u201cA Living Manifesto on Journalism in 2026 and Beyond\u201d<\/a> (Leah Sottile, December 2025)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-heading   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Credits<\/h2>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-image mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.buzzsprout.com\/2449998\/episodes\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-1024x1024.png\" alt=\"Nieman Storyboard podcast\" class=\"wp-image-15145\" style=\"width:338px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-1024x1024.png 1024w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-300x300.png 300w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-768x768.png 768w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-1536x1536.png 1536w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-2048x2048.png 2048w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-40x40.png 40w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-600x600.png 600w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-100x100.png 100w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-200x200.png 200w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-180x180.png 180w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-360x360.png 360w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-115x115.png 115w, https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/app\/uploads\/2025\/03\/Nieman-Storyboard-Podcast_Square-Logo-Sharp-A-230x230.png 230w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Hosted and produced by Mark Armstrong<br>Associate producer: Marina Leigh<br>Episode editor: Kelly Araja<br>Audience editor: Adriana Lacy<br>Promotional support: Ellen Tuttle<br>Operational support: Paul Plutnicki, Peter Canova<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Nieman Foundation interim curator: Henry Chu<br>Music: \u201cGolden Grass,\u201d by Blue Dot Sessions (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.sessions.blue\/\">www.sessions.blue<\/a>)<br>Cover design by Adriana Lacy<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p>Nieman Storyboard is presented by the <a href=\"https:\/\/nieman.harvard.edu\/\">Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-paragraph mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\">***<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n    \n    <div class=\"  core-block\">\n        <div class=\"block block--core block--core-classic mb-5   max-w-screen-full mx-auto\">\n            \n\n\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<div class=\"block block-subscribe full-width\">\n            <h2 class=\"subscribe-title\">Subscribe to Storyboard<\/h2>\n        \n            <div class=\"subscribe-content\">\n            <p>Get insights into the craft of journalism and storytelling in your inbox, delivered on Fridays.<\/p>\n\n        <\/div>\n    \n                <div 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is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Leah Sottile and Ryan Haas on deconstructing \u2018true crime\u2019 in podcasting and journalism - Nieman Storyboard<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The team behind \u2018Hush\u2019 discuss the ethics of narrative journalism and creating a serialized podcast that&#039;s sensitive to victims and families\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/2026\/01\/22\/leah-sottile-ryan-haas-true-crime-podcasting-journalism\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Leah Sottile and Ryan Haas on deconstructing \u2018true crime\u2019 in podcasting and journalism - Nieman Storyboard\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" 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