{"id":2420,"date":"2023-04-26T12:00:08","date_gmt":"2023-04-26T12:00:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/2023\/04\/26\/podcasting-capitol-insurrection-interviews-story-structure\/"},"modified":"2024-03-07T16:53:54","modified_gmt":"2024-03-07T16:53:54","slug":"podcasting-capitol-insurrection-interviews-story-structure","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/2023\/04\/26\/podcasting-capitol-insurrection-interviews-story-structure\/","title":{"rendered":"A podcaster follows a then-cop into the breach of the U.S. Capitol"},"content":{"rendered":" \n
\n
\n EDITOR’S NOTE: This month, Pushkin Industries published\u00a0 “<\/em>The Best Audio Storytelling: 2022<\/em><\/a>,” an audiobook compendium of English-language nonfiction. The collection\u2019s curator, Pushkin\u2019s Julia Barton spoke with creators of work in the collection about their storytelling choices and challenges. This is the second of four posts that revive “Audio Danger,” Barton’s Storyboard series on podcasting published a decade ago. The first installment,\u00a0 posted last week, updates the status of podcasting as a journalistic form<\/a>.<\/em>

By Julia Barton

T<\/span>he 2022 podcast \u201cWill Be Wild<\/a>\u201d (from Pineapple Street Studios\/Wondery\/Amazon Music) is a powerful, deeply reported eight-part series about the people who saw the U.S. Capitol insurrection of January 6, 2021, coming \u2014\u00a0both those who tried to stop it, and those who took part. The series\u2019 narrators, Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Marritz, are veteran public radio reporters who previously co-hosted a series at WNYC Studios, \u201cTrump, Inc<\/a>.\u201d

I admire the drive and scope of \u201cWill Be Wild,\u201d reported mostly in the year following Jan. 6 riots, for its remarkable sourcing even as suspects were apprehended and Congress began its investigations. Bernstein and Marritz each carve out beats of their own, alternating episodes as they help listeners navigate the disturbing cacophony of disinformation and violent rhetoric that came to a crescendo that day \u2014 and remains a ever-present threat.

As a story editor myself, I found the fifth episode, \u201cThe Tunnel<\/a>,\u201d particularly fascinating. It\u2019s a great candidate for Pushkin\u2019s best-of collection<\/a> as a distilled and structurally remarkable example of what this series does so well throughout.

Framing a story through a tunnel<\/strong><\/h3>
The episode starts with Bernstein and ex-District of Columbia police officer Michael Fanone watching footage from his body-cam on Jan. 6. Fanone, normally an undercover vice-squad officer, had responded to distress calls on his radio and volunteered to back up officers under attack at the Capitol. He wound up in the short tunnel that leads to a landing overlooking the National Mall \u2014 the same tunnel presidents walk through before taking the oath of office at inauguration.

\u201cWe were calling this episode \u2018The Tunnel\u2019 very early on\u201d in production of the series, Bernstein says.

\"Photo<\/a>
Andrea Bernstein<\/figcaption><\/figure>

The reporting method Bernstein uses at the top of the episode, that of watching or looking through records of an event with the subject, is one that works especially well in audio. It allows people to re-enter their memories of an event and narrate them in present tense. In this case, Fanone\u2019s memory is horrific and painful: Rioters pull him from the line of officers, rip off his badge and radio, and threaten to kill him. Then someone Tases him in the back of the neck. We can hear him scream. After the crowd finally releases him, we hear Fanone back safely in the company of his fellow officers. But he has suffered a traumatic brain injury and, as he finds out soon in the hospital, a heart attack from being Tased.

\u201cBoth Hannis Brown (the series\u2019 sound designer) and I felt that putting together this episode was one of the most intense things we\u2019ve ever done,\u201d Bernstein says. \u201cListening (to the body cam video) over and over and over and over again\u2026 Mike Fanone is narrating to me everything that happens, but of course, he\u2019s being attacked. So I have to ingest his version, but also look at the whole scene.\u201d Which meant re-examining the attack as recorded by multiple other videos that surfaced of the same incident.

Days of reporting for 10 minutes of story<\/strong><\/h3>
These hours and days of intense reporting are in service of the first 10 minutes of the episode. The story then turns to the man who held the Taser that gave Fanone a heart attack: Danny Rodriguez, who had traveled with right-wing insurrectionists to D.C. from California and who believed, he tells FBI interrogators, that President Trump needed them to \u201csave democracy.\u201d

\"Retired<\/a>
Former Washington Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone (left) with fellow officer Daniel Hodges and U.S. Capitol Police Officer Harry
Dunn at a hearing of the congressional committee investigating the Jan. 6 assault of the U.S. CapitolJune 21, 2022.<\/figcaption><\/figure>

Bernstein says she had been pursuing an interview with another of Fanone\u2019s attackers. But then a judge allowed journalists access to raw video<\/a> of Rodriguez\u2019s four-hour interrogation. After watching that, Bernstein had a realization, one that went far beyond the violence of the man\u2019s encounter with Officer Mike Fanone.

\u201cIn the course of my last six to seven years of reporting, I have interviewed probably hundreds of people who have had an encounter with Donald Trump,\u201d she says. \u201cAnd each of them comes to kind of the same conclusion as Danny Rodriguez: \u2018I was caught up in what (Trump) was saying, and I thought I would be the one to carry it out.\u2019 And then all of them find themselves cast aside.\u201d

That insight leads to a second, powerful layer to this episode: As narrator, Bernstein wants us to pay attention not only to what happened but to how disinformation and the former president\u2019s charismatic hold on his followers led to violence. After introducing the interrogation tape, Bernstein turns to the audience and explains that listeners will not be hearing all of it, but directs them to the show notes to find links to the whole thing. Bernstein makes journalistic transparency and context a part of her story, as she narrates in the podcast:
Because part of the story of January 6th and the lead up to it and the aftermath, is about fake news and media manipulation, we want you to know we\u2019ve kept the meaning of what people said intact.<\/blockquote>
I found that a deft move, simple and direct, but also a reminder that part of our job as listeners is to think about how a story is being constructed. Bernstein then lets us listen in on Rodriguez\u2019s alternately self-loathing and self-aggrandizing version of events. By the time he\u2019s done confessing to the FBI, we\u2019ve spent 10 minutes with him, the same amount of time that we spent with Mike Fanone. The symmetry is subtle, but powerful.

The rest of the episode unpacks the biographies of both men, raising many ironic connections along the way. Both are close in age, around 40. Fanone voted for Donald Trump in 2016. Rodriguez was fond of attending \u201cBack the Blue\u201d rallies. But he also has a history of encounters with the law. He might have been, in another version of his life, the kind of petty criminal Mike Fanone arrested\u00a0or, just as likely, used as an informant in one of his undercover vice-squad investigations. (Earlier this year, Rodriguez pleaded guilty<\/a> to several federal counts and still awaits sentencing.)

A deadline ending<\/strong><\/h3>
Every piece in Pushkin\u2019s \u201cBest of\u201d collection has storytelling moments that I might send a young producer or editor to listen to for inspiration, like a small master-class. \u201cThe Tunnel\u201d is full of such moments, but the one that stays with me comes at the end of the episode. Bernstein is just about to wrap up the story of Mike Fanone, who\u2019s reflecting on the \u201cgift\u201d of Jan. 6, which he says opened his eyes to how angry he\u2019d been and the cost of that anger on the body politic. This is his comment from the podcast:
\u201cWe really need as a country to re-embrace compassion and empathy in our interactions with one another.”<\/blockquote>
And that could have been a triumphant ending. After all, Fanone had testified before Congress and been on the cover of TIME<\/a>.

But close to the episode\u2019s production deadline, Bernstein had the instinct that she needed to talk with Mike Fanone one last time. By then, he\u2019d resigned from the D.C. police force and become an on-air contributor to CNN. He\u2019d received several death threats and seemed to be struggling to figure out how to negotiate his new notoriety. There were rumors he was writing a memoir (which was indeed published<\/a> in October 2022, long after \u201cWill Be Wild\u201d came out).

In March 2022, Bernstein met with Fanone again and played him tape from their previous interview, the one where he\u2019d spoken about the need for compassion and empathy. He told her he\u2019s still proud of his conduct and that of the other officers in the tunnel on Jan. 6. But of his earlier self on tape, he says in a grim tone:
\u201cI was still optimistic that we could change as a country. Unfortunately, I think things have just gotten worse.\u201d<\/blockquote>
Just a few seconds of vivid sound design separate Mike Fanone\u2019s voice in the first interview from his voice in the second. The effect is bold but not confusing. The episode collapses the passage of time in its last moment, giving us just a taste of how it feels to be either Mike Fanone or his assailant, Danny Rodriguez. For both, one split-second encounter changed their lives forever. After that, the past \u2014 no matter how well recorded \u2014 feels like a land forever out of reach.

* * *

Julia Barton<\/strong> is the executive editor of Pushkin Industries, following a long career in public radio. She helped develop “Revisionist History” and “Against the Rules,” among other chart-topping shows.<\/em>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

EDITOR’S NOTE: This month, Pushkin Industries published\u00a0 “The Best Audio Storytelling: 2022,” an audiobook compendium of English-language nonfiction. The collection\u2019s curator, Pushkin\u2019s Julia Barton spoke with creators of work in the collection about their storytelling choices and challenges. This is the second of four posts that revive “Audio Danger,” Barton’s Storyboard series on podcasting published […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":9600,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[25],"tags":[],"topics":[],"authors":[92],"issue":[],"class_list":["post-2420","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-notable-narratives","authors-julia-barton"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nA podcaster follows a then-cop into the breach of the U.S. Capitol - Nieman Storyboard<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/niemanstoryboard.org\/2023\/04\/26\/podcasting-capitol-insurrection-interviews-story-structure\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"A podcaster follows a then-cop into the breach of the U.S. Capitol - Nieman Storyboard\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"EDITOR’S NOTE: This month, Pushkin Industries published\u00a0 “The Best Audio Storytelling: 2022,” an audiobook compendium of English-language nonfiction. 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